Hotnfit.com - EC Stack

Do not take an EC stack if under 18.
Also, read the whole page before starting one.
This site is for informational purposes only, please read the disclaimer.

The EC stack is a term meaning ephedrine HCL and caffeine taken together to aid fat loss. Do NOT take the EC stack if you are under 18 years of age.

I also recommend taking 2-3 g of NOW Ultra Omega-3 (fish oils) with the EC stack to help counteract an increase in blood pressure, and checking your blood pressure to be sure it is within the safe range before and during use of an EC stack. Do not exceed 3g of the concentrated fish oils, or 6g of the regular fish oils as this will put you at risk for internal bleeding (similar to overdosing on aspirin). You can add NOW EGCg (green tea extract) to the EC stack. A total of 400 mg of EGCG per day (2 of the NOW brand) is recommended. Coffee may be substituted for caffeine, 5 oz of coffee contains approximately 80-100 mg of caffeine.

The EC stack was shown through clinical trials (length up to 24 weeks) to increase the basal metabolic rate (calories burned at rest) significantly. It was also shown to help preserve lean body mass on a caloric deficit.

I recommend taking the EC stack in 6-8 week cycles, 2-3 times per day, for maximum fat loss. Using the EC stack in a continuous fashion will cause the stimulant effects (such as possible increased blood pressure, increased heart rate, jitters) to dissipate. However, as shown by the clinical trials, the fat burning effects and muscle sparing effects continue.

I recommend reading the following articles for their indepth discussion on how ephedrine and caffeine aid fat loss (as well as the rest of this page in full):

Regarding Aspirin

Popular ephedra supplements of the past often contained aspirin (or its herbal equivalent, white willow bark). I do not endorse adding aspirin to the EC stack. If you wish to add it, stick to the baby aspirin (81mg). I have several reasons for this

1) The major study(24 weeks!) on the efficacy and safety of the EC stack when used over a long term for weight loss did not include aspirin. Yes, it is VERY effective without the aspirin.

In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by a calorie restricted diet and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20 mg), caffeine (200 mg) or placebo three times a day for 24 weeks. Average weight loss was significantly greater with the combination than with placebo from week 8 to week 24. Weight loss in both the ephedrine only and the caffeine only groups was similar to that of the placebo group.

2) The "effective dosage" at which aspirin was added to the EC stack was at 325 mg. 325 mg of aspirin 3 times a day puts you at risk for developing ulcers and other gastrointestinal symptoms. Again, if you would like to use it to decrease risks/chances of high blood pressure, stick to the 81mg aspirin.

Doses of 1,000 mg per day of aspirin caused gastrointestinal symptoms and bleeding that, in some cases, were clinically significant. In the largest postinfarction study (the Aspirin Myocardial Infarction Study (AMIS) with 4,500 people), the percentage of incidences of gastrointestinal symptoms for the aspirin (1,000 mg of a standard, solid-tablet formulation) and placebo-treated subjects, respectively, were stomach pain (14.5%, 4.4%), heartburn (11.9%, 4.8%), nausea and/or vomiting (7.6%, 2.1%), hospitalization for GI disorder (4.9%, 3.5%). In the A.I. and other trials, aspirin-treated patients had increased rates of gross gastrointestinal bleeding. Symptoms and signs of gastrointestinal irritation were not significantly increased in subjects treated for unstable angina with buffered aspirin in solution.

3) Aspirin is an NSAID (nonsteriodal antiinflammatory drug), and NSAIDs should not be used long term at dosages of ~1000 mg a day except if under the supervision of a physician.

Dosing based on 20 or 25 mg ephedrine HCL pills (or ephedrine sulfate)

Day 1 - This day you just take 1 dose to test whether you are hypersensitive to ephedrine (very rare). The dose will be .5E .5C
- symptoms of fast heart rate, and slight jitters are normal - like the feeling you get from having a lot of coffee.

Day 2-3 - You take 3 doses of .5 E .5C minimum 4 hours apart. I suggest keeping it so your last dose is at least 6 hours away from your bedtime.

Day 4-7 - Your dosing will be 1E 1C, .5E .5C, .5E .5C That is, you take full dose for your first dose only.

If you have trouble sleeping, keep your last dose 6-8 hours pre bed and/or decrease to 2 doses per day.

Dosing based on 8 mg ephedrine HCL pills

Day 1 - This day you just take 1 dose to test whether you are hypersensitive to ephedrine (very rare). The dose will be 1 E .5C
- symptoms of fast heart rate, and slight jitters are normal - like the feeling you get from having a lot of coffee.

Day 2-3 - You take 3 doses of 1 E .5C minimum 4 hours apart. I suggest keeping it so your last dose is at least 6 hours away from your bedtime.

Things to Note

Note 1 - Do NOT take any other caffeinated products while on EC such as tea, cola, coffee. Drink additional water as caffeine is a diuretic.

Note 2 - If you have bladder issues/discomfort, this is from the caffeine, and should go away in a day or two. If it does not go away after 2 days, decrease your dose (either cut it in half, or take 2 doses per day instead of 3).

Note 3 - After ~4 weeks the loss of appetite and extra energy will mellow out, but the thermogenic effects continue for a very long time, so it is your choice whether to cycle off. The fat loss effects do continue. If you choose to take a 2 week break after 4-6 weeks, stay on the caffeine, drop the ephedrine, and raise it slowly according to the schedule above when you go back on. Ephedrine is not addictive, and does not have withdrawal symptoms, whereas caffeine is and does, so just stay on it if you wish. However, I do not recommend exceeding 8 straight weeks. Take a minimum 2 week break after 8 weeks. Then restart with day 1.

Note 4 - The loss of appetite can be so severe that you may feel like throwing up if you eat a lot (in the first 1-2 weeks). I suggest eating very small meals (eg. 200 cals each) frequently, and feel free to add things which are not filling eg. cereal with milk, fruit, whey shakes.. try to ensure you eat at least at your BMR.

Note 5 - Will help asthma. NOTE: taking a ventolin type inhaler while on EC may lead to overdose (they have similar activity).

Discontinue use if you experience: irregular heart beat, skipped heart beats, high blood pressure, panic, dizziness, agitation, or any other symptoms that concern you.

An EC Stack can cause your heart rate to rise, and extremely intensity activity should be avoided (eg. HIIT). I suggest not raising your heart rate above 80% MHR during cardio, that is 0.8*(220 - age).

Contraindications

Do not use EC with SSRIs, SNRIs, MAOI, or other forms of antidepressants, or within 2 weeks of halting/taking antidepressants. Do not use if you have a psychoneurosis (bipolar disorder, severe depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc.

Do not use if you have kidney problems, impaired adrenal function, hypoxia, hypercapnia, acidosis, hypertension, hyperthyroidism, prostatic hypertrophy, diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, or are pregnant or breastfeeding.

Do not use if you have heart palpitations or heart defects. Do not use if you have diabetes.

Additional contraindications for the use of ephedrine include: closed angle glaucoma, phaeochromocytoma, asymmetric septal hypertrophy (idiopathic hypertrophic subaortic stenosis), tachyarrhythmias or ventricular fibrillation.

Ephedrine should NOT be used at any time during pregnancy or breastfeeding, or while trying to become pregnant (unless under direction of a doctor).

Ephedrine should not ordinarily be used in those cases where vasopressor drugs may be contraindicated, e. g., in thyrotoxicosis, diabetes, and other cardiovascular disorders.

Shopping in the US

In Stores

Ephedrine can be found behind the counter in drug stores (eg. Walgreens) - ask the pharmacist for Bronkaid (over the counter asthma med). You can use Bayer's product locator to see which stores have it. Caffeine can be found in drug stores, wal-mart and supplement stores.

From Bodybuilding.com

Shopping in Canada

1. What is EC? How do I dose it?
EC is a combination of ephedrine and caffeine used for fat loss. People typically use 20-25mg ephedrine and 200mg caffeine, 3 times a day. For safety reasons, it is recommended that dosages are increased very slowly as described above.

2. Can I take EC with xyz supplement?
As a general rule, avoid taking any stimulants with EC. If you have a preworkout product, you can skip a dose of EC to take it.

A few stimulant products I found to be ok with ephedrine personally (drop caffeine part) are
- controlled labs white flood
- millennium sports ragnarok

3. Which supplements would you recommend in addition to the EC?
EGCG, fish oils (see links here)
Creatine (mono or a non-stim product) - good for keeping strength/lean mass
Multivitamin (for general health)

4. Why not take aspirin?

I described this above. I HIGHLY suggest you take fish oils, at a EPA + DHA dosing of 1-2 g per day (so 3-6 regular, or 2-3 concentrated omega 3 caps) will help lower blood pressure slightly. Some people take 81mg aspirin with the stack and have not reported any issues.

5. What are things to watch out for NOT mentioned thus far?
Especially if you are low carbing, watch that your potassium intake is at least 2000 mg per day. Low potassium combined with EC can put you at risk for heart palpitations.

If you want to know how much potassium is in your diet, input your diet into NutritionData

Also, monitor your blood pressure. If your blood pressure goes outside the normal range, STOP the ec stack. And do not take it if you have borderline high blood pressure.

Don't use it in the heat. People have gotten heatstroke while on EC in the heat, esp. playing sports. This is because it raises your body temperature AND can make you sweat more, and thus you will be more likely to get dehydrated.

6. What is the difference between ephedrine sulfate and ephedrine hcl?
Ephedrine hcl is slightly stronger, 25 mg ephedrine sulfate is equivalent to 20 mg ephedrine hcl.

7. How do I take it in relation to meals?
Up to you, I always took it every 4 hours upon waking INDEPENDENT of when my meals were. Some people take it 30 minutes before meals.

8. Can I take it just preworkout/precardio?
Yes, HOWEVER, start with a small dose and ONLY increase if you are not having jitters. And I don't suggest doing workouts with jitters. And don't do your first ever dose preworkout. Remember NOT to get overheated and/or dehydrated.

9. Is EC dangerous?
It's not foolproof. Use with caution, listen to your body, stop taking it if you get negative symptoms. There have been a number of adverse events. Use with extreme caution.

10. How to come off of EC with minimal sides?
Drop the ephedrine immediately, taper caffeine at 100 mg less every third day.

11. I have 30 mg ephedrine pills, how do I dose them?
I'd dose this way:
Day 1 - test dose, take 100mg C 15mg E
Day 2-4 - 100mg C 15mg E, 2x
Day 5-7 - 200mg C 15mg E, 2x
Day 8-14 - 300mg C 30mg E first dose, 200mg C 15mg E second dose
Day 14+ - 300mg C 30mg E, 2x

12. Is 2 doses per day effective?
Yes. Go for it if this works better. Sleep is VERY important too.

13. Shouldn't I cycle it every 2 weeks, 4 weeks (whatever)?
Not necessary, as it keeps working even taken for long periods of time.

But I do suggest stopping after 6 weeks for a break, otherwise you risk adrenal fatigue from all that caffeine. If you want to take it LONGER than you may want to consider dosing it only 2x/day or 1x/day.

15. What is this about not doing HIIT?
Well, you can skip an EC dose and do HIIT if you like. The danger is that your heartrate may go too high. If you have a heart rate monitor, keep track of your heart rate. I definitely would not go above 170-180 bpm. Otherwise, go at a moderate pace. Running should be ok (IF you are used to it), it's sprinting that would be an issue.